Banks of the Letort-Quarry Meadow

[tomitrout]

Was out on the Letort last night, and something just looked different from the trestle bridge. On my way out, I dropped down to the stream to see what's up. Sorry about the quality of the pic it was taken at 9pm....

Somebody went thru the lower Quarry Meadow and pulled back all of the streamside growth. Pulled back all of that sweet overhanging grass that provided shelter for some very nice fish. Yeah, the summer growth made for tough, tricky fishing, but is this really beneficial for the stream to alter it so?

Anybody know what's up with this? Who, what, why? It was done either Weds, Thurs or Friday..wasn't like that on Tuesday.

 

[JackM]

Is this public property? Report it to the authority that supervises it. Maybe Fishidiot can shed some light as I believe he is involved with the local TU that stewards the stream. If the land is private, you could inquire about it with the landowner. Just be careful on your approach as it may very well have been the landowner that "groomed" the bank for his own reasons. You might have to play diplomat is you wish him to know you disagree with his decision.

 

[salmotrutta]

The sink hole opened back up in a few new places this past winter. I reported it. A stream was running off underground from the main stream. I have been working too much to keep up but that's the spot & I'm sure they're trying to stop it before the whole deal drains into the cave....

On second look I'm wrong. Was TU pulling weeds?
The spot I meant is up stream & if it wasn't fixed be careful in the upper meadow everyone. Literally the earth could fall out from under you.

 

[Fishidiot]

We had a severe sinkhole issue in that same general area sixteen years ago. At the CVTU meeting on Wed evening it came to light that there may be another sinkhole in that area and that some folks from the chapter planned to investigate. Also, the upper Letort has seen some invasive chara weed take root in recent years and CVTU members will pull it out from time to time.

 

[salmotrutta]

Wow- they are just now finding out?

 

[MattBoyer]

salmotrutta wrote:
The spot I meant is up stream & if it wasn't fixed be careful in the upper meadow everyone. Literally the earth could fall out from under you.

Just to be sure I know where you mean, where is this in relation to Bonnybrook Road?

Boyer

 

[tomitrout]

Matt, the picture is looking downstream, the RR Trestle bridge on the nature path is around the bend to the right, just out of sight.

I do remember hearing some gurgling a good ways back from the stream earlier in the spring, took a curious look, and thru some 'gopher holes' saw water flowing about 8-10" below the ground I was standing on...couldn't tell if the water was flowing to or from the stream, figured it was a small spring feed upwelling, but maybe it was a/the sinkhole forming....sorta in the spot mid-meadow near that stick w/ a sock on it, if you're familiar.

This work has more of the feel of bankside weed eradication than sinkhole concerns...

 

[Chaz]

Where there are quarries in a limestone region there will always be sinkholes, especially if they are pumping in the quarry to remove water that seeps in. This is why quarries should never be placed in a limestone region, they will at some point have to pump water.

As for the vegetation, how do you know that it just didn't die from the extreme heat? It does happen, plants go dormant during stressful periods, happens all the time. But I have seen idiots cut and mow and pull out vegetation along the banks of streams, heck they've been doing it for hundreds of years, why would they change now?

Is it possible that some of the vegetation were invasive plants?
Water naturally flows through stream banks and some of it actually flows under growing trees, especially where it is swampy, that's not really something that would be of concern, unless there is a sinkhole there.

The holes in the banks probably were muskrat holes, you see them all the time along limestone stream, look at the ditch, muskrat holes are all over the place there, though it isn't a natural stream bank there.

Getting back to the sinkhole issue, they are very hard to close up after they form, especially when they are near the stream bank. Along the Bush Kill, they form all the time and in fact cause a highway bridge to subside, making the bridge unsafe. In this case the only way to stop the sinks holes from forming is to close down the quarry operation and stop the pumping. DEP will not do that.

 

[salmotrutta]

MB- Upper quarry meadow just below the dead.fall. Just below where we concreted a few years back. Been feeding a cave since last Winter. Somewhere I have pics. of the stream running under water.

 

[firandfeather]

Cant' say much about the sinkholes. They do happen. CVTU does pull weeds out just as the "old" riverkeepers do on the Test and Itchen. Their primary focus is on the invasive. We here at FSTU are looking into doing the same for the invasive weed filling in the upper reaches. We are looking at not pulling them out, rather cutting them below the waters surface.

Keeping them below the surface, they will eventually die off.

 

[troutbert]

For you local guys who are familiar with the situation:

What's the long term prognosis? Is the Letort doomed to disappear into a sinkhole?

 

[salmotrutta]

If not kept after yes. The quarry meadow keeps opening up new leaks into the under water river/cave.

As for pulling weeds- me & an old fella use to mow channels in the summer & rake the redds come fall but he's too old now & my back is bad. I wish I could do what I use to. Nothing more heart breaking than a stream with weed bank to bank for a fisherman. Me anyhow.

The people who live along it use to dig out the silt on their piece of the river too. They are all too old also. I wish I could have seen it then...

 

[Chaz]

Rake the redds? Please explain!

 

[afishinado]

Chaz wrote:
Rake the redds? Please explain!

I took to mean rake weeds and/or silt from the bottom to expose clean gravel for spawning fish. I'm sure we'll hear an explanation.

 

[Fishidiot]

CVTU and local Letort regulars rake the spawning gravel every year - not the redds. This is done in Sept most years. The gravel up around Bonnybrook and down below Charlie Fox's house isn't natural and was placed in the stream decades ago by Fox. This is also true of the stone "walls" built in these gravel areas. Fox discovered that spawning browns don't fight as much if they're "walled off" from each other. So most years, in Sept, the gravel spawning areas are raked and prepped otherwise they'd be silted or grown over with vegetation.

 

[salmotrutta]

Yup- nuff said.

 

[tomitrout]

Chaz, weeds were definitely pulled, didn't succumb to the heat. You can see some of the root clusters & clumps in the pic....

As it was getting dark out, I couldn't get a decent look into the stream channel itself. So I don't know if any vegetation invasive or otherwise was pulled out of the stream proper, or if this is just pulling back the streamside veg to allow for easier access/fishing. The work stops there just about at the big downed tree, and only on the rail trail side of the meadow.

If this is CVTU 'managing' this meadow, that's cool, just hoping/curious that it's not some renegade out there 'improving' the stream on his own. I'm guessing this stretch is on the Quarry's property? There were a few nice fish that used that overhanging tunnel of grasses for cover...not that there aren't plenty of other spots along that beat...just not a fan of 'dumbing down' the experience/challenge ya know? But, it is an easy to access and popular stretch, so I can see why it might be groomed to take a bit of the edge off...

Will probably poke around in there next I'm out, hopefully tonight, curious about this probable sinkhole and the below surface running water I saw there in the spring.

thanks for the info everybody...

 

[salmotrutta]

I never accused the CVTU of doing anything smart. It would be better left alone than pulling weeds along the bank. All that will do is erode the bank, making the stream wider/shallower over time while allowing all else to fill with silt. Thumbs down.

 

[jpittman80]

I was apart of the project on the Letort last Friday and we were not pulling grass from the bank we were pulling the invasive veg out of the of the stream to make channels for the fish. Yes this was a CVTU project and it is done every year at different parts of the letort.

 

[tomitrout]

jp,

Thanks for chiming in, was hoping that this was some sort of 'sanctioned' activity and not a renegade operation. Did ya'll also work on a portion below/across from Otto's farmhouse? Was just out there tonight and it looked a bit different than a couple weeks ago when I was last on that stretch...