small stream dry fly leaders

[evw659]

ive found a couple recipes on the internet, but dont like most of the ones under 8'. i dont like them because most of them have a long butt section and 5-6 6" sections leading up to the tippet and if your leader breaks above the tippet, then you have no room to tie another blood knot. i know a lot of you guys fish small streams, so does anybody have a good small stream dry fly leader formula they can give me?

Thanks,
Evan

 

[krayfish]

Have you tried a 7 1/2', 6x tapered leader? Cut it back a whisker, add 12-18" of 5x and then 18-24" of 6x tippet. Works fine for me.

 

[BrookieBuster101]

I fish harvy's tight brush leader. Its like 6' and it turns over quite well.

 

[evw659]

I fish harvy's tight brush leader. Its like 6' and it turns over quite well.

id like to try that one. can you give me the formula? id like to tie some up and try them with a piece of yarn on the end in my backyard.

 

[dryflyguy]

Just take the formula from the regular dry fly leader that you use, and cut the dimensions in half for a really short leader. A 12' leader would end up being 6'. And I carry a few of these for the really tiny streams.
And I also cut the dimensions by 25 % to get a leader that ends up being around 9 feet. This is used on small to mid size streams.

 

[Kilwell]

I used to tie my own Harvey formula 6' leaders but this year switched to Umpqua 6' 4X power taper pocket water leaders and they seem to turn over just as well. I cut them back 2' and add 2' of 5x tippet for smaller flies but usually fish #14 dries and just leave it at 4X and add tippet when neccessary.

 

[jayL]

Get some heavier (0x-3x) tippet to rebuild your store bought tapered leaders when (or before) they get to that "no room to tie a blood knot" stage.

 

[pcray1231]

Well, a variety of answers is likely because "small stream" may not be enough to describe what you're looking for. How small? How tight with brush? Limestoners or freestoners?

Based on the avatar I'll assume you're talking about the tight, brush and rhodo choked little freestoners with little brook trout.

I generally use Humphrey's tight brush formula, which is in both his book "Trout Tactics" as well as several of his videos. I'm sure it is based off of the same Harvey formula mentioned by BrookieBuster. I gotta tie a new one for the weekend so I'll dig it up within a few days.

7'6" ending in 3x or 4x tippet is a pretty typical starting point for me. I sometimes adjust the leader, but more often the tippet length, to get tighter casts vs. better drifts as needed. I'll go down as far as 5' probably, or as long as 8.5'. And every so often I'll go as low as 5x for the tippet.

To alleviate the blood knot problem, feel free to adjust to fit your needs. If it's only 6" lengths, then your formula is stepping down really gradually. For instance, if the formula calls for (not a real formula, just making a point)

6" 0x --> 6" 1x --> 6" 2x --> 18" 4x

Well, heck, try skipping the 1x and going straight from 0x to 2x. Could split it evenly and go

9" 0x --> 9" 2x --> 18" 4x

Or I often just error on the side of softer, you can always shorten the tippet later if its too soft for the casts you need

6" 0x --> 12" 2x --> 18" 4x

 

[NCPAtrtbum]

I take 2lb mono and make furreled leaders about.. 4/5 foot then just attach the appropriate amount of tippet to the end of that. (Usually ending up at 9ft total).

 

[RowJimmy]

I've never had a problem using store bought 7.5ft 3x leaders.

 

[gfen]

pcray1231 wrote:
I gotta tie a new one for the weekend so I'll dig it up within a few days.

 

[FlySwatter]

As Pcray implied. there is little reason to go below 4x on typical PA freestone headwater streams. The trout are not leader shy and the ehavier tippet will help a lot in retreiving flies from trees (pretty much a given).

 

[BrookieBuster101]

evw659 wrote:

I fish harvy's tight brush leader. Its like 6' and it turns over quite well.

id like to try that one. can you give me the formula? id like to tie some up and try them with a piece of yarn on the end in my backyard.

use that chart gfen posted. I fish the 6'6 the most, its not too long and its not too short. Its a great leader and all the screwing around with dimensions has been done for you long ago haha

Edit: My bad it was Joe Humphrey's Tight Brush

 

[Chaz]

I buy my leaders, 9 foottapered knotless leader and add a 3 to 4 foot piece of tippet in either 5X or 6X to that, making the entire leader over 12'. For larger flies I use 4X tippet, sometimes 3X, on streams with big brookies.

 

[jdaddy]

I have all but given up on hand tied leaders and think I will try furl or go back to extruded tapered knotless leaders. A lot of folks talk about blood knots and how they form a neat little barrel and go right through the guides. I have not found that to be the case. Additionally, I believe the logic that Eric Stroup puts forth in his book that store bought leaders are inconsistent and have variance resulting in inferior performance is simply flawed. 10 leaders off the machine are going to be more consistent than 10 hand tied leaders. Additionally, the taper is much more even, thus I have to think that transfer of energy is greater. I am glad I learned to tie my own, as it will allow me to rebuild store bought leaders.

Can the Borger leader length sections simply be reduced, kind of like what someone said above? That would involve a lot less knots for ya, thus giving more room for repair.

 

[Shock]

I grew up fishing small brushy freestones West of State College and I agree with BrookieBuster.

If you don't do it, try tying your your own leaders. Joe Humphrey's formulas are not the only ones out there but I always go back to them because they work.

When you are fishing in tight conditions, what you need is accuracy, not fine tippets or long drifts. A good knotted leader will give you that because it will have the right proportion of diameter change and length of each section. Knotless leaders always seemed to me to be too thick and stiff in the upper 70% and then they drop dramatically to thin and limp. Maybe this is because the only thing that a manufacturer can change is thickness to get the same effect as one gets by changing from hard to soft nylon when tying your own.

Maybe that is just my impression but I think that when I started tying my own leaders again after using knotless leaders for 4 or 5 years, my presentations got better; softer progressive turnover, longer drift, more accuracy.

Your results may differ.

Shock

 

[greenlander]

jdaddy wrote:
I have all but given up on hand tied leaders and think I will try furl or go back to extruded tapered knotless leaders. A lot of folks talk about blood knots and how they form a neat little barrel and go right through the guides.

I've actually recently (last year or so), gone the other way. I've started doing solely hand tied. I used furled leaders for around 2 years, and still like them, but found them a bit worse for drag and a little too soft for my tastes.

I'm actually putting together an article right now entitled "stop wasting your money on leaders already" (or something like that).

Maybe I'm missing something -- but who cares if they go right through the guides? You're not casting your leader. You're casting your fly line.

The only time any knot on my leader goes through my guides is when I'm stringing my rod up.

 

[evw659]

i guess i should have specified in my original post that i tie al my own leaders. store bought leaders are fine, but paying 4 or 5 dollars a piece for a leader i could tie myself in 6-7 minutes is rediculous. i bought the maxima 1-25 lb line pack or 45 dollars and have 20 plus leaders with it and still have a ton left. i am just looking for a very simple short leader that works well with dries. i go through 1 or 2 leaders per brookie trip because of sagging in brush, trees and other foliage. i made up a leader formula that may work: any suggestions as to the formula?

16" 25 lb
24" 20 lb
16" 12 lb
12" 8 lb
20 inches of 4x or 3x rio tippet

 

[jdaddy]

greenlander wrote:

Maybe I'm missing something -- but who cares if they go right through the guides? You're not casting your leader. You're casting your fly line.

The only time any knot on my leader goes through my guides is when I'm stringing my rod up.

My issue is that I fish leaders 12-15' and when fighting fish knots get caught in/on guides. I also believe the bulk of the knots create additional drag potential. But you know, to each his own.

 

[jayL]

I find hand tied leaders to turn over a little better, and to require less floatant.

The extruded ones sink like stones for me. I was dying without my maxima leaders on my trip, but mucilin helped.