Rotary vs. a stationary vise

afishinado

afishinado

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I started tying with a Thomson stationary vise a long time ago. It did the job, but I eventually graduated to a Regal vise. That worked well for a few years, until I stopped into my local fly shop and watched someone tie on a Renzetti rotary vise. I tried it in the store and bought a Renzetti Traveler that day. Since then, I’ve tied thousands of flies on the Renzetti from 3/0 saltwater to size 30 midges, and have never looked back.

There are things that can be done better and easier on a rotary vise. I believe tying with a rotary can improve the appearance of your flies and make dubbing, ribbing, palmering and hackling easier, and quicker in some cases.

For example, a common problem is the hackle feather twists when you tying a traditional Catskill fly or palmer hackle on a wooly bugger or EHC. On a stationary vise you must use the wrap over, hand off, and wrap under method, which often causes the hackle to twist during the hand-off or wrap-under. This problem is virtually eliminated on a rotary since you can hold and maintain tension on the hackle feather and keep it perpendicular to the body while rotating the fly. You don’t lose sight of the hackle or lose tension on the feather as the fly is rotated. In the case of palmering, maintaining an angle while rotating makes the spacing of the hackle near perfect every time.

When dubbing on a stationary vise, you must dub a short noodle on the thread, wrap around and dub the thread again and again. The noodle must remain short since you need enough clearance to wrap the dubbing and bobbin over and around. When dubbing on a rotary, you can dub an extra long noodle on your thread, let it hang off the table and rotate the fly to dub the entire body while maintaining even tension, and without having to reapply more dubbing to the thread. Also, when tying on a rotary, you are able to the see the fly 360 degrees as you rotate with no blind spot in the back.

Ribbing a fly is also simplified on a rotary. You simply grab the ribbing material, hold it at the proper angle, maintain tension and rotate the fly. The spacing is perfect when the angle is maintained, and again you get to see the fly as it is wrapped 360 degrees. Same as above when tying a chenille or other similar type body material.

If you tie any flies with epoxy or the new quick setting UV stuff, a rotary is just what you need. The fly stays parallel in the vise while you rotate it to apply the goop evenly, grab your UV light, and rotate the fly a few times until it sets up.

Another advantage of a rotary vise is the bobbin cradle can be used to keep the thread and bobbin out of your way when performing certain tying steps.

I love my Renzetti Rotary. I've tied many thousands of flies on it in the 20+ years I've owned it. The vise still performs today as well as the day I bought it. I would consider this vise a 5 star purchase, but there are other quality rotary vises out there.

My whole point of this post is to let fellow tyers know that the rotary function has some function, if you choose to use it. Good luck.


 
Great advise afishinado. Just like you, started on a stationary, then got a traveler. Immediately the flies looked better and fished better. If you are serious about tying, invest in a rotary
 
Very nice post for the new tier looking to get a vise or others looking to upgrade.

Even if you don't do a full rotation, for whatever reason, being able to do a partial rotation lets you see what is going on and make adjustments you would not otherwise know you need to make. I have insufficient knowledge of the current products available to make recommendations, but the availability of rotary is something I miss whenever I, for old time sake, get out the stationary to relive the bad old days.
 
What exactly do you mean by stationary vise? Sorry for my confusion.

Is a stationary vise any vise that is not an inline (true) rotary vise? Would an HMH or Regal Medallion be a stationary vise in your use of the term?

The nomenclature isn't consistent, and I hear others use terms such as fixed, standard, rotatable, and 360 rotary among others when describing vises outside the "inline rotary" category.
 
Oh Wow. I started with a Thompson A vise ~45 years ago (I was tying Minnow Rigs) at age 10. Started to tie flies at age twenty and am still using that old vise. I did buy the midge jaws that i use 90% of the time and a bent nail serves as the locking lever pin.

I only tie for me and a few friends something like perhaps 10-20 dozen a year. Not knocking the rotaries, (my wife bought me one for Christmas a number of years ago) I tried it once and I was all thumbs. Its still in the box. Have no idea what kind it is.

Probably a year behind one i would probably get proficient at its use. I could see how quality and speed would increase. Wooly buggers come to mind.

I just enjoy tying and that old vise is kinda nostalgic for me. Perhaps this winter I'll give it another try.
 
I just started tying last March on an old Cabela's vise that was given to me.

CabelaSuperII%28600pw%29.JPG



After a few months I bought the Renzetti Traveler at Orvis.

RenzettiTraveler.jpg


When I first started using the Traveler it was a difficult adjustment.
I'm sure the problem is because I'm a beginner, but doing a pinch wrap on the Traveler feels a bit awkward because the arm/jaws slopes down as compared to the Cabela's.
 
Great post, afish.

My experience mirrors yours exactly. Switching to my Renzetti gave me the single biggest improvement in the appearance and quality of my ties.

Now, tying on a non "true rotary" vise feels like tying with one hand tied behind my back. Once you get used to the rotary techniques, you realize it's a better way to do a lot of things as you tie.

Here's a multi page article that describes rotary tying, and may answer a lot of questions people have about it.

http://globalflyfisher.com/tiebetter/rotate/truly.php
 
"When dubbing on a stationary vise, you must dub a short noodle on the thread, wrap around and dub the thread again and again. The noodle must remain short since you need enough clearance to wrap the dubbing and bobbin over and around."

on any vise you can dub an inch or more of thread into a dubbing noodle and wrap it to the eye without adding more dubbing. you may want to twist the dubbing tighter as you wrap forward to maintain a nice even body but you don't have to add more dubbing unless you want a more tapered body.

"Ribbing a fly is also simplified on a rotary. You simply grab the ribbing material, hold it at the proper angle, maintain tension and rotate the fly. The spacing is perfect when the angle is maintained, and again you get to see the fly as it is wrapped 360 degrees. Same as above when tying a chenille or other similar type body material."

any tyer can achieve the same thing. the rotary vise does not maintain the angle or tension of any material.

rotating the vise to see the far side of the hook.

I really don't know how someone can muck up the far side of the fly when wrapping ribbing or anything else around the hook if you maintain angle and tension on the material being wrapped.

hackling. I actually prefer to wrap hackles by hand but will occasionally use the rotary function. wrapping by hand allows me to do a little manhandling/positioning of the feather if required. no hackle wraps perfectly 100% of the time!

beginning a hackle wrap on bare stem seems to keep the hackle from twisting and will keep the shiny side forward while wrapping.

I don't think wrapping a hackle is automatically perfect when using the rotary function. a lot has to do with the quality of the actual feather being used and how the tyer wants it tied

with all that being said, I have tied on a renzetti traveler since the 80's when it first came out. before that I tied on a Thompson stationary vise.

I will tell you that eventually the novelty of a rotary vise will wear out and you'll find yourself using the rotary function less and less because you have gained more experience and have gotten better at tying flies

the vise doesn't tie the fly. if you believe you tie better using one by all means go for it

just my thoughts on the subject

 
afishinado wrote:
I started tying with a Thomson stationary vise a long time ago. It did the job....

Same here. Interestingly, I have mostly used fixed vises over the years and have currently tied mainly on a rotary the last several years. Speaking for my own experience, I have not become much accustomed to the rotary function. Maybe because I tied old school for so long, my hand eye function is stuck in its old movements. In fact, I probably haven't used the rotary function in at least a year (and I tie a lot of flies, many of them decorative).

I'm making a resolution to try the rotary function a bit more in the future.
 
Very good perspective on rotary vises. I have one of each. I find moving the thread and material so simple and quick there is no reason to complicate the process. my rotary is nothing more then a stationary. This could be because I have used the stationary for so long anything else feels like driving on the left side of the road. Other reasons for this feeling include:

I do not production tie
I tie only what I need when I need it.
I do not put great emphasis on how even the ribs or dubbing is

If you have a discerning eye, are a perfectionist, have a need to save 30 seconds in tying time or like eye candy flies then a rotary is hands down the tool for you. If you just want to sit down and tie a few flies that will catch fish than any vise will do.
 

As a corollary to the OP, I agree that having a vise that allows you to turn it to look at the bottom is extremely helpful.

As for using true rotary in your tying, I'm not on board. I've got one, and I see how some people may prefer it but I, personally, find little advantage. Just because you can doesn't always mean you have to.

In other words, for everyone who swears by it there will be someone who finds it useless. Don't allow others to sway you to their way, find your own pace. Both camps are correct, as they have formed personal opinions based on their personal use.

Find your own.
 
this is probably a dumb question, but they describe rotary vices with either a "right hand" or " left hand " action.

if you tye with your right hand, which one do you want ? and whats the actual difference ?

surely you just turn it around if you want to work the other way - like when you have to pull foam or pheasant tail forewards right ?
 
geebee wrote:
this is probably a dumb question, but they describe rotary vices with either a "right hand" or " left hand " action.

if you tye with your right hand, which one do you want ? and whats the actual difference ?

Many of the rotary vises have a rachet mechanism (I know one of my Renzettis does) that works much like a rachet driver does for nuts and bolts. It only works in one direction. If you're a right handed tyer, and follow the normal "up and away from you" wrapping direction, you want a rachet that turns the vise counter-clockwise as seen from the eye end of the hook. (This would be "right handed".)

OTOH, if you tie left handed and follow "up and away from you" wrapping direction, the vise has to turn clockwise as seen from the eye. (This would be "left handed")

And of course, if you're an eccentric who wraps "up and toward you" like Oliver Edwards, you would want the opposite.

Additionally, on Renzetti vises, the screw that sets the hook and the smaller one that adjusts tension are both on the front side of the vise, and which side that is depends on whether you're tying right or left handed.
 
thanks redietz,

so i tye with a stationary vise to my left and wrap dubbing, tinsel, herl thread etc with my right 'over and away (clockwise ?) - but on rotary vice i want it to my right so i can spin the vise with my right hand ?

 
geebee wrote:
- but on rotary vice i want it to my right so i can spin the vise with my right hand ?

No, you spin the vise with your left, but rachet works so that it only engages rotating so that the thread goes over & away. If you move that rachet the other way, it rotates but the vise doesn't.
 
okay got you - would that be described as a RH vice then ?

sorry for all the questions, i think i best check one out in person before upgrading...
 
A right handed vise:

1) If it has hook setting and/or adjustment screws they face the tyer when the vise is positioned so that the hook is to the right of the jaws. Not all rotary vises have such screws, but most Renzettis do.

2) If it has a rachet mechanism, the rachet engages to turn the jaws when rotating counter-clockwise as seen from the front of the fly, and disengages when rotated clockwise as seen from the from of the fly. Not all rotary vises have the rachet mechanism, but again, many Renzettis do.
 
I have never heard of the "ratchet" system for any renzetti vises and the renzetti website does not indicate any of their vises have a "ratchet"

please indicate which one have the "ratchet"
 
nfrechet wrote:
I have never heard of the "ratchet" system for any renzetti vises and the renzetti website does not indicate any of their vises have a "ratchet"

please indicate which one have the "ratchet"

My Presentation has one, as do several other that I've tried.
 
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