Fracking chemicals found in Bradford Co Water

[geebee]

i'm not surprised, is anyone ?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/05/science/earth/fracking-chemicals-detected-in-pennsylvania-drinking-water.html?_r=0

if its in the drinking water, its in the creeks and fish.

:smh:

 

[pcray1231]

It's somewhat old news.

I would make 1 correction (and I'm not entirely sure about this). The chemical (2Be) is NOT used in hydraulic fracturing. It is found in drilling fluid, not fracking fluid.

The drilling fluid is used before the casings are installed on the wells, so that'd make sense on how it got there, and does not necessarily mean there was a failed casing.

That said, if this fluid at these concentrations are deemed a problem, then I'm not sure there's a solution.

 

[timmyt]

Outlaw it like NY did

 

[duckfoot]

I'm chuckling because 2-butoxyethanol is the active ingredient found in this:

I, my students, and kids around the country get whiffs of this stuff 180 days out of the year.

You will gag on this stuff before it can harm you, and that's even if you chug it. Since it is an ethanol alcohol, it is metabolized by your liver in the same manner as drinking alcohol.

Congratulations, folks, there's fracking gin in your tap water.

EDIT: Let it be known that Prof. Brantley was one of my favorite people in Deike Building. Super nice person.

 

[pcray1231]

Outlaw it like NY did

Again, this isn't a fracking chemical.

 

[pete41]

duckfoot wrote:
I'm chuckling because 2-butoxyethanol is the active ingredient found in this:

I, my students, and kids around the country get whiffs of this stuff 180 days out of the year.

You will gag on this stuff before it can harm you, and that's even if you chug it. Since it is an ethanol alcohol, it is metabolized by your liver in the same manner as drinking alcohol.

Congratulations, folks, there's fracking gin in your tap water.

EDIT: Let it be known that Prof. Brantley was one of my favorite people in Deike Building. Super nice person.

Well said,sir. Excellent way to unpush the panic button,with humor.

 

[pcray1231]

I'm wondering how in the world they are able to test for "parts per trillion". In any testing I'm aware of that fits squarely within "below detection limits". Not doubting it, just curious.

To put it in perspective, take a, say, stream that averages 200 cfs. One bottle of that white board cleaner dumped into that stream slowly over an entire year gives you a similar average concentration.

 

[KeithS]

"Again, this isn't a fracking chemical."

But the drilling is still part of the whole fracking process. No need to split hairs on the different parts of the operation.

Also, are these fluids used to drill a well for water? If so, why did these concerns not come up years ago?

 

[poopdeck]

I did a simple google search and found that 2BE is found in many products most notably fire fighting foams and oil spill dispersants. Another quick google search reveled the following products in my home that contain 2BE:
Loctite, windex, simple green, rain x, turtle wax, liquid wrench, minwax stain, krylon, latex paint, Thompson water seal, goo gone, and more but I quickly bored of looking.

Common sense tells me that when dealing with measurements such as parts per trillion, I could contaminate many other things with trace amounts of 2BE simply by touching things after cleaning my windows with windex. That's just me applying some common sense but maybe their is a more scientific way to put it.

 

[duckfoot]

KeithS wrote:
Also, are these fluids used to drill a well for water? If so, why did these concerns not come up years ago?

Because Stolzfus & Sons Well Drilling Co. doesn't have billions of dollars to sue for.

 

[pcray1231]

But the drilling is still part of the whole fracking process.

Well, yes and no. Meaning, yes, but you got it backwards. Fracking is part of the drilling process.

You can drill without fracking. And that's legal in NY state, which was the point in replying to the post I replied to. Assuming this came from oil/gas activity (it probably did), then NY in no way outlaws it.

In terms of oil & gas, it's true that it's rarely done without fracking these days. It can be, and back when we were drilling shallower, richer deposits it was. But the "low hanging fruit" is mostly gone and to go after the deeper, leaner deposits the risk/return relationship doesn't work out without fracking.

Also, are these fluids used to drill a well for water?

Depends on the outfit. For most small, shallow wells for say, an individual house, no. They often do them dry or with plain ole water. But for bigger, deeper wells, maybe to supply a public water system or irrigation system, using larger equipment, yes.

If so, why did these concerns not come up years ago?

Because such low concentrations of a relatively benign substance wasn't traditionally considered a concern (unlike duckfoot, I wouldn't suggest chugging it on a regular basis, though).

Bottom line: This particular area didn't really have a water contamination problem. They tested it to death and only found this, which may be enough for someone to get some money out of a lawsuit. But the results here say absolutely nothing about whether other areas do have real problems (and they do, though real problems have been typically associated with screwed up wells rather than all wells, but when you make hundreds of thousands of wells a couple of screw ups are near certain).

 

[pmelle]

Part per trillion can be measured with certain types of spectrometers like an ICP mass spectrometer (got to see some testing with one of these in college). ...And I'm not sure that companies have to disclose what chemicals are in fracking fluid, so it may very well also be a component in fracking fluid as well as a chemical in drilling fluid.

 

[laurelrun]

Interesting correction added to the end of that NY times article.

 

[pcray1231]

...And I'm not sure that companies have to disclose what chemicals are in fracking fluid, so it may very well also be a component in fracking fluid as well as a chemical in drilling fluid.

They have to disclose toxic chemicals, but this probably isn't one of them.

Nonetheless, if it was from fracking fluid, well that would imply a failed well casing which let it get into the water table. So you'd expect far more than a tiny amount of 2BE would be found (as HAS been found in other areas, for instance, Dimock).

It's a known additive to the drilling mud. That occurs prior to the well casing being installed, so it's not indicative of any sort of failure. And no other chemicals were found which would be expected in the case of a failure. Occam's razor applies.

 

[RyanR]

KeithS wrote:
"Again, this isn't a fracking chemical."

But the drilling is still part of the whole fracking process. No need to split hairs on the different parts of the operation.

Also, are these fluids used to drill a well for water? If so, why did these concerns not come up years ago?

I don't think it's splitting hairs at all, it's a distinct difference and I think those that want to educate themselves on the actual facts about hydro fracturing instead of just the hysteria appreciate knowing the difference.

Why hasn't it generated concern before if it's also used in water well drilling? Probably because water wells aren't part of the environmentalists anti-fracking agenda.

 

[duckfoot]

pmelle wrote:
Part per trillion can be measured with certain types of spectrometers like an ICP mass spectrometer (got to see some testing with one of these in college). ...And I'm not sure that companies have to disclose what chemicals are in fracking fluid, so it may very well also be a component in fracking fluid as well as a chemical in drilling fluid.

Ugh, I spent three years of undergrad slaving away at mass specs for 25 hours / week.

Fickle %$*^%$*(&$#$'s, they are. Breathing on them wrong shuts them down.

We tend to name our chem machines, like Abbi does on NCIS.

 

[poopdeck]

"And I'm not sure that companies have to disclose what chemicals are in fracking fluid, so it may very well also be a component in fracking fluid as well as a chemical in drilling fluid"

I called Google and wanted an answer to this. The chemical makeup of cracking fluid is known, is on the web, must be reported, and is regulated. All contrary to what you read from anti frackers

 

[afishinado]

poopdeck wrote:
"And I'm not sure that companies have to disclose what chemicals are in fracking fluid, so it may very well also be a component in fracking fluid as well as a chemical in drilling fluid"

I called Google and wanted an answer to this. The chemical makeup of cracking fluid is known, is on the web, must be reported, and is regulated. All contrary to what you read from anti frackers

^ True.

Check this out: http://stateimpact.npr.org/pennsylvania/2011/08/12/whats-in-the-frack-how-pennsylvanias-chemical-disclosure-rules-stack-up-against-other-states/

 

[FarmerDave]

RyanR write:
I don't think it's splitting hairs at all, it's a distinct difference and I think those that want to educate themselves on the actual facts about hydro fracturing instead of just the hysteria appreciate knowing the difference.

Well said Ryan, especially the first paragraph.

It seemed like a well written article, no pun intended.

Somebody asked me about this at the jam over the weekend and I was not familiar with it. Now I am.

So, Keith. Should we outlaw all drilling? Even the vertical wells?

I don't see this one as a big issue, but good to know.

I'd speculate that a couple bottles of cleaning solution put in a faulty septic system could even cause this. I'm guessing of course, but it is definitely a shorter and easier path from a septic system to a water well.

The known spill that was mentioned would likely be more suspect IMO.

OMG, a chemical used in drilling/fracking is found in a water well!

And yet, you guys let your wives and GFs smear the same chemical on their faces.

Also consider this. 2-Butoxyethanol is approved by the U.S. FDA to be used as direct and indirect food additives! Mmmm. makes the tofu slide down better.

Which one of you have never used any of the products previously mentioned? I occasionally wash the garage floor with simple green. OK, I don't, but my wife does.;-)

I also find it odd that this was the only drilling or fracking fluid found in the well. Well, besides water. Test the drinking water in most of the country and you are likely to find traces of this organic substance as well as many substances from hormones to pesticides and I'm talking parts per million, not parts per million million.

Outlaw all drilling and who does it hurt?

Maybe we should just outlaw people.

What's that sound! Could it be the sound of a huge winch lifting the felled sky back where it belongs?

 

[duckfoot]

^ Yup, if you all knew what chemicals are in your food, you'd have a legitimate panic attack.