Trip to central PA

[Ggrove]

Hi all, I am new to this forum so any help is appreciated. This coming weekend, I am planning to make a trip to state college to fish the well known streams (Planning on Spring, Penns, and the little J). I am from western PA so I consider it a little bit of a treat to myself. I have never been on spring or penns, but do have some experience on the LJ. That being said, I was wondering how they are producing this time of year, and if that would change with the upcoming rain this week. Also if it is even worth making the 2.5 hour trip out. I plan to leave Saturday afternoon and get back Sunday night. I am a high school student, so my time is pretty limited, and I want to make the most of it. As aforementioned, any advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you!

 

[lycoflyfisher]

My opinion is that hitting all 3 of those with such little time is a futile effort. Id likely pick 1 depending on your sleeping arrangements. Or pick spring for the shorter evening outing on Saturday while everyone is at the Penn state game and hit the little J on your way home Sunday.

 

[jifigz]

Since you are from southwestern PA and you only have on day, I would just fish the Little J. It is the closest to you, and it is all you need.

There are plenty of fish there to be caught. Just go to the public land and give her hell.

 

[Broodstock]

As someone who also has limited time (jobs, family) and drives from the PGH area to CPA to fish, here is my advice:

• Go fishing when you can, not when the conditions allow. If it is too warm for trout, fish bass. If the rivers are super low/clear but cold - fish broken water. If the rivers are blown out, fish as high up into the headwaters as you can go, or fish big streamers in the slow/slack water.
• Check the gauges on these three streams, and some of the reports in the shops (TCO, feathered hook, Penns Creek Angler) although the reports are biased. The LJ is currently very, very low but cool. Penns looks good, and so does spring (a bit low) but for this time of year they are seasonally low (LJ especially)
• With the rain this week, expect that the rivers will be coming up. How much, that depends on the timing, duration, and rainfall rates. 1-2" of widespread rain would be great. 2-4" locally could blow out some places. Time will tell.
• October Caddis are active, along with Slate Drakes, and of course Olives (depending on locations) and I saw a ton of Craneflies yesterday. It is very much streamer season.
• I also get the "eyes bigger than stomach" syndrome and want to fish more water than I have time. I agree - pick one place, two tops.

 

[dudemanspecial]

I live just east of Pittsburgh and routinely make the trip to central PA. Already good information posted above but I would like to expand on it.

Penns is just a hair too far IMO unless you plan on spending the night and only fishing it. Going from spot to spot on Penns is a 30-40 minute endeavor on its own.

I fish the little J more than anything, but spring is a decent backup if the J isn't good.

If I were working with your timeline, I would drive to Spring Creek Saturday and fish it. If its good, stick with it Sunday morning for a few hours, then hit the Little J on the way back home Sunday.

I would stick with the lower end of the little J, towards Barree and Alexandria if the water doesn't come up much. Same with Spring, I would concentrate on the Paradise down to Bellefonte with the current conditions.

 

[Swattie87]

My opinion is that hitting all 3 of those with such little time is a futile effort. Id likely pick 1 depending on your sleeping arrangements. Or pick spring for the shorter evening outing on Saturday while everyone is at the Penn state game and hit the little J on your way home Sunday.

Good advice. OP - You’re probably biting off a little more than you can chew trying to fish all three of those in one weekend. Spring is maybe a little easier to figure out (smaller, and less diversity of bugs there) but Penns and the Little J can be tough nuts to crack and you’ll probably find you need to put some time into them to figure them out. Sure, can you get lucky and hit a major hatch that’s obvious and easy to figure out and match, yeah, but that’s the exception, not the rule. And it’s less likely that’ll happen in the Fall, versus the Spring during the major hatch seasons. I’ve been skunked plenty on both of them and it took me probably a half dozen trips on each til I at least knew what to expect, sort of. Still doesn’t mean they’ll fish easy.

I wouldn’t expect this little bit of rain to do much to stream levels. Of those three, Penns is in the best shape flow wise by a pretty good margin over the other two. Still lower than ideal, but it currently has the best flow of those three.

As far as what flies, for dries I’d have some Caddis in varying sizes and some Slate Drakes (a generic Adams, size 10-12 ish works fine for this), and some small BWO’s. Your standard generic nymphs will be fine and I’d probably mainly plan on nymphing, unless you get lucky. Unless we get a TON more rain, I don’t think streamers will be very effective.

If it were me, with the current flows, I’d spend both days on Penns and get to know it.

Edit: As you can probably tell already, you’re gonna get a lot of opinions here. The one common theme will probably be to pick one, or two at most, and focus on those. For a quickie weekend trip, on water that’s new to you, it’s easy to burn all your time in the car driving around. Don’t do that. Park, and fish.

 

[troutbert]

In that time span, I would just fish ONE of those streams.

I would camp at Poe Paddy State Park Saturday night and just fish Penns Creek.

 

[Ggrove]

Good advice. OP - You’re probably biting off a little more than you can chew trying to fish all three of those in one weekend. Spring is maybe a little easier to figure out (less diversity of bugs there) but Penns and the Little J can be tough nuts to crack and you’ll probably find you need to put some time into them to figure them out. Sure, can you get lucky and hit a major hatch that’s obvious and easy to figure out and match, yeah, but that’s the exception, not the rule. And it’s less likely that’ll happen in the Fall, versus the Spring during the major hatch seasons. I’ve been skunked plenty on both of them and it took me probably a half dozen trips on each til I at least knew what to expect, sort of. Still doesn’t mean they’ll fish easy.

I wouldn’t expect this little bit of rain to do much to stream levels. Of those three, Penns is in the best shape flow wise by a pretty good margin over the other two. Still lower than ideal, but it currently has the best flow of those three.

As far as what flies, for dries I’d have some Caddis in varying sizes and some Slate Drakes (a generic Adams, size 10-12 ish works fine for this), and some small BWO’s. Your standard generic nymphs will be fine and I’d probably mainly plan on nymphing, unless you get lucky. Unless we get a TON more rain, I don’t think streamers will be very effective.

If it were me, with the current flows, I’d spend both days on Penns and get to know it.

Edit: As you can probably tell already, you’re gonna get a lot of opinions here. The one common theme will probably be to pick one, or two at most, and focus on those. For a quickie weekend trip, on water that’s new to you, it’s easy to burn all your time in the car driving around. Don’t do that. Park, and fish.

Thanks a lot for the advice- I would like to check out new water so I can rule out the LJ. I’m leaning more towards spring because of its proximity to where I will stay. With penns having so much to explore, I would rather devote a larger chunk of time to that. I would prefer to focus on the smaller spring creek for the weekend. If it’s too crowded I have a few consistent spots on the LJ I will go to as a last resort.

 

[Ggrove]

As someone who also has limited time (jobs, family) and drives from the PGH area to CPA to fish, here is my advice:

• Go fishing when you can, not when the conditions allow. If it is too warm for trout, fish bass. If the rivers are super low/clear but cold - fish broken water. If the rivers are blown out, fish as high up into the headwaters as you can go, or fish big streamers in the slow/slack water.
• Check the gauges on these three streams, and some of the reports in the shops (TCO, feathered hook, Penns Creek Angler) although the reports are biased. The LJ is currently very, very low but cool. Penns looks good, and so does spring (a bit low) but for this time of year they are seasonally low (LJ especially)
• With the rain this week, expect that the rivers will be coming up. How much, that depends on the timing, duration, and rainfall rates. 1-2" of widespread rain would be great. 2-4" locally could blow out some places. Time will tell.
• October Caddis are active, along with Slate Drakes, and of course Olives (depending on locations) and I saw a ton of Craneflies yesterday. It is very much streamer season.
• I also get the "eyes bigger than stomach" syndrome and want to fish more water than I have time. I agree - pick one place, two tops.

Thank you much, are streamers as effective when the water is down? I’m sure they would work well on penns, but on spring and LJ, would they work as well?

 

[Swattie87]

Thanks a lot for the advice- I would like to check out new water so I can rule out the LJ. I’m leaning more towards spring because of its proximity to where I will stay. With penns having so much to explore, I would rather devote a larger chunk of time to that. I would prefer to focus on the smaller spring creek for the weekend. If it’s too crowded I have a few consistent spots on the LJ I will go to as a last resort.

That’s a solid approach I think. Spring won’t be too crowded. You’ll have plenty of space to fish it. Even in May, when the Sulphur’s (Spring’s most popular hatch) are on, I’ve never found it an issue finding room to fish. Park at Fisherman’s Paradise and go upstream, or, park at the Benner Springs lot and hike downstream. The trail there connects the two lots and it’s roughly 3 miles of water between them.

 

[Broodstock]

Thank you much, are streamers as effective when the water is down? I’m sure they would work well on penns, but on spring and LJ, would they work as well?

Streamers are my favorite way to fish, and I fish them with the most confidence of all fly types, and I often use them in combination with other flies. I might not be the best opinion on this. This fish ate a streamer yesterday, so 🤷‍♂️ who knows.
I tend to use them as either a first pass, or last pass over a run/hole. In the low and clear water, you need to find opportunities for fish to see and react but not get too long of a look. Also, downsize and natural colors. Sometimes I move a fish with a streamer, and then catch it on a nymph 10 mins later. Other times I catch a fish on a streamer after nymphing up a run.

Also, in the rain, try wet flies if you go to Penns. Wets are overlooked and underused and there are a lot of drowned duns in the rain.

 

[headhunting22]

Like others have mentioned, your best bet is going to depend on how the forecasted rain affects the streams. by the looks of it, it should put them all in very fishable condition though being as they are all low.

If you are eager to check out Penns, I suggest you start there Saturday and fish all day. If it does not treat you well, make Spring a fallback plan and enjoy the time you have on Sunday there. Like others said, the fish there can be a little easier to figure out.

Whatever you end up deciding, hopefully you enjoy your time on any of those beautiful streams! I don't think you will go wrong no matter what you decide on doing.

FWIW - I fished Penns last week at ~250 cfs and the fishing was good.

 

[Swattie87]

Thank you much, are streamers as effective when the water is down? I’m sure they would work well on penns, but on spring and LJ, would they work as well?

Streamers work best IMO in two circumstances, both of which I think you’re unlikely to encounter this coming weekend:

1. High and off color water. Penns is flowing decent for early Fall, but it’s far from high, and it’s likely clear, or nearly clear. Spring and Little J are both low. Little J I’d say is very low.

2. You’re fishing over un-pressured fish. It’d be a stretch to call any section of Penns/LJ/Spring unpressured. This is more of a small stream deal usually.

One mild exception is a short window each Fall, pre-spawn, where Browns seem to go buck wild for anything that moves, even in low/clear water. But, I think we’re early by a few weeks or even a month for that yet.

I expect all three of them to probably fish pretty tough this weekend unless the rain way overproduces the first half of this week, but, it beats sitting on the couch wishing you were fishing.

 

[Nocktavius]

You’re gonna get a lot of different advice here. My contributions:

The forecast rain is not particularly significant and is over a fairly long duration (48h+), if it amounted to more than an inch in total I think we’d all be tickled pink. the pattern has run so dry lately I have serious trust issues with any forecast significant rains that don’t originate from a tropical system.

Levels are fairly low so any rain (provided it’s not a torrential downpour over several hours) will benefit both the fish and the fishing- potentially getting some of the bigger fish active again.

If you’ve fished the LJ before I’d focus on the eastern streams instead. Spring is easy, fairly boring, and has lots of small fish. If the other rivers are blown out, go ahead and fish it. But otherwise I’d skip it, its a dink factory certainly not worthy of a 2.5 h drive

For my money, if the gauge is less than about 500-600 cfs by friday (which it will be), I would fish Penns for the whole weekend. The wilderness experience out there is second to none, and a bit of rainfall will get the fish up and moving such that things could be pretty interesting. It’s the kind of place where you can just feel fully disconnected from it all as well- which you’re not getting on the other waterways. Fish early (like be on the water at sunrise early), find shade during midday and fish faster water, and pay attention to the bugs around you. Probably will be a lot of emerging caddis, so you’re going to want to have your nymphing game dialed in. Streamers in low light through tailouts could get you on some surprising fish. I’d be happy to provide some specific access points for you via DM but will not be posting them publicly for all to see. Stopping in at the Feathered Hook in Coburn will also yield some valuable info.

 

[troutbert]

Thanks a lot for the advice- I would like to check out new water so I can rule out the LJ. I’m leaning more towards spring because of its proximity to where I will stay. With penns having so much to explore, I would rather devote a larger chunk of time to that. I would prefer to focus on the smaller spring creek for the weekend. If it’s too crowded I have a few consistent spots on the LJ I will go to as a last resort.

Spring Creek won't be crowded. Yesterday (Sunday on a football weekend) I walked from Fishermans Paradise upstream over 2 miles and saw about 3 or 4 fishermen in that whole stretch.

Since you will be staying near Spring Creek, just fish Spring Creek. Keep things simple.

 

[Wild_Trouter]

One important thing to note w/Spring. Don't constrain yourself to just Fisherman's Paradise or Benner Springs. There are other sections that see way less pressure resulting in easier fish to catch. It's a large system so it isn't hard to get away from the crowds.

 

[rrt]

Good suggestions all. But, if you choose Spring Creek, remember to clean the bottoms of your waders when you get home to prevent spreading New Zealand mud snails to other waters.

 

[tpn]

Agree with many above to focus on one. I’m in Butler and make the trip up to our cabin a good bit on Penns. If I don’t plan to stay up there I prefer to fish the J. Love both of them.

Side note I head up Friday and will be on penns Friday evening and all day Saturday.

 

[Swattie87]

Penns gauge has moved up more than I thought it would. 330 cfs at the moment. Thats getting to the bottom end of what I’d call ideal for Penns. I would definitely be doing Penns, given the choice of those 3 streams now for this weekend.

 

[discomidge]

If I didn’t have a stupid job I’d 100% be out there chucking streamers rn. Dream conditions