Gov't shutdown closes Valley Creek

KeithS wrote:

You may or may not be safe, I don't know. What they're saying is they can not guarantee that there will be any way to respond to any emergency.
The place is closed. The people who run it, whether you own it or not, won't allow you in. What's so hard to understand?
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I was joking but u truly feel that without government you can't walk in the woods or fish a creek .... for your own safety of course.





KeithS wrote:
Whether you like the government or not doesn't determine the laws you have to follow.
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O'rly? The only laws that matter are natural laws.
 
"I was joking but u truly feel that without government you can't walk in the woods or fish a creek .... for your own safety of course. "

Of course not, unless, for whatever reason, I'm not allowed.
If PFBC closed LL, I wouldn't break a law to fish.


"O'rly? The only laws that matter are natural laws."

What about traffic laws? Nothing natural about a motor vehicle.



If you dislike the government so much, why not leave ?
 
KeithS wrote:
If PFBC closed LL, I wouldn't break a law to fish.
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I don't see what that has to do with the discussion we are having and what you have said. Please expound



KeithS wrote:

If you dislike the government so much, why not leave ?
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It isn't if I dislike but .... why would I leave?
 
PFBC is a government agency. If they put LL off limits, would you go there to fish anyway ?


I'm not sure I understand the other question.
 
KeithS wrote:

PFBC is a government agency. If they put LL off limits, would you go there to fish anyway ?
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If they closed it down b/ of something wrong w/ the creek, fish, etc, etc .. wouldn't fish. If they gated it up cause they couldn't fund the govt employees and put it off limits until they hash out their issues ... F'dat ... u bet ur arse I'm fishin.

Do you also lose the ability to think without government?





KeithS wrote:

If you dislike the government so much, why not leave ?
Click to expand...
KeithS wrote:

I'm not sure I understand the other question.
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Yes I dislike the government BUT why would I leave?
 
I work in CC Philly and I can look out my window at Independence Hall and I noticed they closed and locked gates on the smaller parks that make up Independence Nat'l Park and these parks are basically just garden areas.

As for the larger parks, there is no way to physically close them and people are still using them as before.

There is no way they can stop anyone from fishing Valley Creek in the park just like the parks here.

Sorry Folks, the park's closed! - Marty Moose
 
We the people own that land, not congress or the administration. Walk in & fish and hunt those parks if you desire and do so with patriotic pride for what our founding fathers really dreamed of for our country. It sure wasn't this shameful embarrassment we're dealing with now. Consider it your act of civil disobedience if you like.

Closing these park lands is a joke, like we really need government in order to take a walk in the woods or wet a line in a stream or lake.
 
KeithS wrote:
You may or may not be safe, I don't know. What they're saying is they can not guarantee that there will be any way to respond to any emergency.
The place is closed. The people who run it, whether you own it or not, won't allow you in. What's so hard to understand?
Whether you like the government or not doesn't determine the laws you have to follow.
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LMAO. Baaah, baaah.
 
I can't even respond anymore.
Do you guys think you're above everything, or are you just discussing to discuss?
 
It's obvious you're not SUPPOSED to, since it's impossible not to see the signs.

I won't do it. If I want to fish Valley, I'll do it out of the park. :)

That said, I do agree that the prohibition on entering parks wouldn't hold up under court scrutiny. The government does not own the land. We the people do. We give the government permission to manage it. But in the absence of government, it's still our land.

In the absence of governments, I get it. Trash cans don't get emptied. Bathrooms don't get cleaned. Tours and interpretive walks stop. Gift shops close. Food stands close. Campgrounds shut down. There's nobody to answer historical questions. To protect public property, you can't open the doors to museums, monuments, etc. All the stuff that requires people and money to provide can't happen. I can even understand shutting down the roads and parking areas, if they are taken care of by the park service. If they are state roads, then they stay open.

But people and money don't provide the land itself.

IMO, it should revert from national park to any other public space, like national forests. The National Forest Service, though, doesn't try to tell you that you can't walk in your woods. They may gate many of the temporary roads that are opened and closed frequently. But you can drive the main roads, walk wherever you'd like, fish, hunt, etc.
 
pcray1231 wrote:

That said, I do agree that the prohibition on entering parks wouldn't hold up under court scrutiny. The government does not own the land. We the people do. We give the government permission to manage it. But in the absence of government, it's still our land.
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I think that it would hold up in court. Even if you had the paflyfish legal eagles on your team.

It's pretty common for agencies to close certain areas of public lands at certain times. Would the courts back them up? I think they would.
 
In the absence of governments, I get it. Trash cans don't get emptied. Bathrooms don't get cleaned.
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Well, I already take out any trash I find in the creek, but I donno about starting to clean-up the deer poop I find.

They'll need to pitch-in and begin to clean up after themselves.
 
From the Pittsburgh Tribune Review:

"The federal government shutdown is impacting fishing. U.S. Army Corps of Engineers lakes, including Loyalhanna, Shenango, Crooked Creek and others, are closed and their boat ramps are off limits."

I don't own a boat or fish these lakes. Is there some government employee that is normally stationed at the ramps to help you put your boat in? Maybe they park your truck/trailer for you after you get the boat in the water? Help you get it out? What about a shutdown should prevent someone from fishing?!?! The absurdity of this situation really hits home when you read stuff like this is happening.

 
Yes, it is absurd for this to be closed to the public... what I find even more absurd is for it to be closed off to tour guides, fishing guides, hunting guides etc... who gave money to the state and paid for National park permits to work there and make a living. A park permit to guide in Valley Forge is through the roof. What are they telling these people? Do they think guides are just there for a hobby? Americans should be outraged. NICE of them to close the parks down at the most beautiful time of the year.
 
The better fishing is outside (above) the national park, so plenty of it remains open.

Otherwise watch for the ticks, they are pretty bad down there.
 
They can find 2 rangers to park by a car and wait for a jogger. They couldn't find a couple rangers to park by entrances and warn people though?
 
Pigs. I hope that guy and his lawyer waffle them in court, what a couple of losers, waiting by a guys car while he jogs to give him a ticket. Good thing those guys took care of that, sounds like it could have been really dangerous with that guy jogging around...totally un called for
 
We have been told that the rangers are just making sure that everyone is safe.............:)
 
Yo. The Rangers are just doing what they're told to do. Reserve the hate for the government. That's how I role.
 
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