Fly Fishing Elitism (from an outsiders perspective)
- Thread starter Traveling Trout Co
- Start date
BradFromPotter
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2006
- Messages
- 1,469
Did you tie or buy the flies you fished with when you started out?
FarmerDave
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2006
- Messages
- 14,219
I used my dads flies for the first few years, we would send away for fly somewhere in PA through the mail.
I’d buy some local in a pinch and then began ordering online when our little corner of the world got connected to the World Wide Web.
I’ve never taken up tying, a good friend of mine from college is excellent though, and he keeps me well stocked, in exchange for all the hackles and other usable parts of my extra roosters.
Fly-Swatter
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2014
- Messages
- 1,262
sixfootfenwick
Well-known member
Elite.
Requires an achievement of knowledge and experience that results in the ability to understand and demonstrate and explain the skills and techniques that provide success in the pursuit of pleasure.
Like a head football coach with superior skills and knowledge of the game, compared to the rest of the team and sideline fans.
A football coach with a history of creating winning teams. Better than the other coaches.
An elite for the sport.
Like a race car driver providing knowledge to fans and pit crew. One of the most winning race car drivers.
Requires an "elite".
Being considered an "elite" requires a broad range of knowledge and experience.
But comparisons being made within a realm of jealousy because someone else might have greater skills and knowledge ... those comparisons should remain personal, not public.
Not demeaning.
There's absolutely no place for growing into knowledge, skills and abilities (KSAs) by adopting an attitude that someone who does have superior KSAs is a bad thing!
Learn. Every era, every activity has elites.
Recognize. Respect, but please don't ridicule and talk down.
(Unless they are jerks.)
Elites don't normally refer to themselves as superior as a human being. Just that they are superior practitioners in a specialty, with enough and a very broad range of experience and education that exceeds the general population.
IMO, "Elites" are usually considered to be so by people who recognize WITHIN THEMSELVES a lack of KSAs.
Nothing bad about being considered an "elite".
But some who have yet to achieve the same KSAs as "elites" seem to feel a strong need to ridicule those who actually do possess greater KSAs, and who are more likely to socialize amongst themselves.
Why?
Because the "elites" can talk without having to explain constantly. It's easier and provides a better feeling for the group to gather and communicate.
Hopefully, the use of the word can be as a noun and/or an adjective of respect, or acknowledgement for those with superior KSAs.
- Like a specialist surgeon with a specialist practice with clients from around the world. And that specialist surgeon socializes within a very limited group of other high-demand surgeons.
- Like Einstein and his/our group of physicists.
I urge that the general use of the word "elite" with flyfishing not be used negatively.
Please do not use the word to redirect out of some personal recognition and frustration of failure to have achieve that level.
Those considered "elites" may have written books. May have taught classes. May have performed and taught many casting techniques to many audiences.
They may make a living by doing so.
They may have their own relationships, based upon mutual knowledge and respect for each other's works and achievements.
Yes. They are "elites", but it's not them who say so.
I've never seen a true flyfishing "elite" wear a T-shirt that states "I'm Elite".
Requires an achievement of knowledge and experience that results in the ability to understand and demonstrate and explain the skills and techniques that provide success in the pursuit of pleasure.
Like a head football coach with superior skills and knowledge of the game, compared to the rest of the team and sideline fans.
A football coach with a history of creating winning teams. Better than the other coaches.
An elite for the sport.
Like a race car driver providing knowledge to fans and pit crew. One of the most winning race car drivers.
Requires an "elite".
Being considered an "elite" requires a broad range of knowledge and experience.
But comparisons being made within a realm of jealousy because someone else might have greater skills and knowledge ... those comparisons should remain personal, not public.
Not demeaning.
There's absolutely no place for growing into knowledge, skills and abilities (KSAs) by adopting an attitude that someone who does have superior KSAs is a bad thing!
Learn. Every era, every activity has elites.
Recognize. Respect, but please don't ridicule and talk down.
(Unless they are jerks.)
Elites don't normally refer to themselves as superior as a human being. Just that they are superior practitioners in a specialty, with enough and a very broad range of experience and education that exceeds the general population.
IMO, "Elites" are usually considered to be so by people who recognize WITHIN THEMSELVES a lack of KSAs.
Nothing bad about being considered an "elite".
But some who have yet to achieve the same KSAs as "elites" seem to feel a strong need to ridicule those who actually do possess greater KSAs, and who are more likely to socialize amongst themselves.
Why?
Because the "elites" can talk without having to explain constantly. It's easier and provides a better feeling for the group to gather and communicate.
Hopefully, the use of the word can be as a noun and/or an adjective of respect, or acknowledgement for those with superior KSAs.
- Like a specialist surgeon with a specialist practice with clients from around the world. And that specialist surgeon socializes within a very limited group of other high-demand surgeons.
- Like Einstein and his/our group of physicists.
I urge that the general use of the word "elite" with flyfishing not be used negatively.
Please do not use the word to redirect out of some personal recognition and frustration of failure to have achieve that level.
Those considered "elites" may have written books. May have taught classes. May have performed and taught many casting techniques to many audiences.
They may make a living by doing so.
They may have their own relationships, based upon mutual knowledge and respect for each other's works and achievements.
Yes. They are "elites", but it's not them who say so.
I've never seen a true flyfishing "elite" wear a T-shirt that states "I'm Elite".
Well, maybe fly-fishing elitism" (original topic) isn't so bad to be after all. Besides elite, snob, and nerd, the later "suggestions" of what I might be -- low-life loser, old (this one's certainly true), kindred, thin-skinned, and autistic/artistic -- aren't as bad as I thought. Vern's Post #308 puts a different light on the subject. Maybe I should work to become more elite! 🙂
sixfootfenwick
Well-known member
Elite Brook Trout Signature T-shirt — Elite Graphix
Elite has taken built a fashion for fishing! A brook trout pattern inlayed the Elite Signature fitted with a color matching fly! The t-shirt is a natural shirt that has no dye and is an all-natural cotton! Item #: 00660 4.5 oz./yd² (US) 7.5 oz./L yd (CA), 100% ring spun cotton, 30 singles
www.elitegraphix.org
Never too late to start
BradFromPotter
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2006
- Messages
- 1,469
If you bought any from Halloran's Hardware in Coudersport from 1992 thru 1999 you bought flies tied by me.
6xAdams(Jones)
Well-known member
So, similar to a nickname, the "elite" label should never be self-assigned.
The_Sasquatch
Well-known member
That's pretty cool! I bought flies there during that time
BradFromPotter
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2006
- Messages
- 1,469
I had only been seriously tying for about a year. I met a guy on my honeymoon in Potter County when my wife & I walked into Jack's Tackle in West Pike. He told me to give him a call to fish in the spring. He then introduced me to Jack Halloran at Halloran's Hardware. He mentioned he needed flies tied for the store.
I showed him some of the flies I tied & he placed an order. It was over 300 dozen! I do not think I even had tied over 300 flies total for myself at that point. Nothing like jumping in head first!
Been running around in my head now and then about "elite".
And I now think that I should acknowledge the existence of those who consider themselves superior, and use their "elitism" to dismiss others.
Happened to me in high school. I was in academic curriculum and also a top athlete. And I hunted, trapped and fished and practice casting year-round - in the snow, etc.
I did all that stuff on my own. Alone.
I earned it for myself.
Not for competition, except when fun, as in games.
Not to show off.
I wouldn't begin to think that anyone thought I was doing any of it in some sort of competition for superiority as a person!
Superiority in a competitive sport. That's the goal of competitive sports.
But here's a story of the first time "elitism", as I feel is referred to at the core of this post, struck me.
And struck me hard.
One of the other academic classmates, who also played football (but sat on the bench) in the midget league, approached me and told me that I wasn't one of them. The true academics.
Which bothered me, because it belittled himself in my eyes, and I had known him since elementary school.
But it also hurt because he pretty much informed me that I wasn't up to par for the "elites".
My other classmates didn't act that way at all. For the most part.
But he was a C student and didn't want me getting any attention of dignity in the academic class.
He seemed to need to do that.
For his own self-respect and image.
But I wasn't social group joiner, for the most part.
I fished alone from age 5. I fished with every reel and rod category.
Because I wanted to fish.
I wanted to catch and learn.
I love casting with bait casting.
Started with a really cheap setup.
( Think my dad won it on an illegal peg board in a private bar setup. A firehouse business.)
Then went to spinning, totally immersed.
Fished with various baits and lures. Crane fly larvae make good bait, etc.
Went to flyfishing to be able to fish with flies, especially to catch native brookies and wild browns.
Especially fishing ants.
Growing up I spent almost every day walking fields and woodlots and instream, etc.
Got a library and God teaching me of streams, fields, fish, crayfish and scuds and Johnny Darter, and chub-suckers, and chubs and suckers, and plants, birds and animals, stones, geological aspects, springs to drink from, trees to climb ...
Elitism requires judgement.
Human judgement is crap.
Judgement by nature is truth.
Nothing about elitism in there.
No that was there other out of control thread that had similar title. I will review the ~320 posts here ... again and warn any elitist.
headhunting22
New member
Leader length limit in FFO streams is 18'. This is likely an attempt to weed out exactly what you're saying.
Also there are only a handful of FFO streams in the state, none of which I would consider the most pristine waters except for fisherman's paradise on spring creek. Even if so, that's a short stretch of a long stream that is just as good it's entire length.
That’s incorrect. There is no longer a leader length regulation. You could be legal with one foot of fly line on the reel.
You wouldn’t consider slate run one of the best trout streams in the state? Is certainly is written about enough for me to consider it one.
Last edited:
