Nymph-O-Maniac
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sandfly
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In Pa. there are 4 distinct color and sizes of green drakes. Penns is one, pine is one and I know Lyman run has one. not sure where the forth is though. Most times the same pattern can be used for all just adjust the size of the fly..first is off of pine second off of Lyman
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pcray1231
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Great pics!
I did not know about the 4 different size/color variations. Interesting. I've encountered Drakes on about a dozen PA streams.
In western PA (Allegheny drainage mostly), Hex's are much more common and produce similarly huge hatches and spinner falls, but a lot of people incorrectly call them Green Drakes too. Drakes have 3 tails, Hex's have 2.
I did not know about the 4 different size/color variations. Interesting. I've encountered Drakes on about a dozen PA streams.
In western PA (Allegheny drainage mostly), Hex's are much more common and produce similarly huge hatches and spinner falls, but a lot of people incorrectly call them Green Drakes too. Drakes have 3 tails, Hex's have 2.
sandfly
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A few more pics:
Funny thing about the green drake hatch this year on pine was they were hatching in the evening and the spinners were falling in the early morning. Fished a mile stretch with only 4 other people..You can see the fly is a size 10 easy. The further up Pine you fish the smaller they get. I have fished size 8 here most times.
Funny thing about the green drake hatch this year on pine was they were hatching in the evening and the spinners were falling in the early morning. Fished a mile stretch with only 4 other people..You can see the fly is a size 10 easy. The further up Pine you fish the smaller they get. I have fished size 8 here most times.
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sandfly
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pcray1231
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I was aware of size and color variation from place to place. But most bugs have that. I never thought of them as "distinct" populations, but rather more of a continuous scale. If they are distinct, it kind of leads you to a subspecies thought process.
I certainly believe ya though. You got the data!
I certainly believe ya though. You got the data!
ryguyfi
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The Hex's off the Allegheny and other Western PA rivers are HUGE. They're a solid 2-3 hook sizes bigger than the Penns Green Drakes. I'll try to do some recon and take some pictures this year of them if I can catch them.
pcray1231
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I've ran into much smaller Hex's on smaller waters in the Allegheny drainage, though. Like 12's. Which is still a HUGE bug for those streams. But those are the streams where you're much more likely to find trout, and yeah, I had good fishing to them.
I know downtown Pittsburgh gets a hex hatch that makes the papers every year. You see them flying around at PNC Park too. Also, I used to work at a steel mill on the Kiski River, and there'd be a few days each year where the mill bridge would get covered with them and cause accidents. Street light on bridge, bugs attracted to light, fall dead on road. I also remember going to a rodeo at Crooked Creek in June a few years back. The lights attracted a swarm, which burnt up like a giant skeeter zapper when they touched it. Fried Hex's falling dead on the crowd. They eventually roped off that area of the stands, and moved the date for subsequent years!
Everyone called them green drakes. I didn't have much luck convincing them otherwise. But they are indeed Hex's.
I know downtown Pittsburgh gets a hex hatch that makes the papers every year. You see them flying around at PNC Park too. Also, I used to work at a steel mill on the Kiski River, and there'd be a few days each year where the mill bridge would get covered with them and cause accidents. Street light on bridge, bugs attracted to light, fall dead on road. I also remember going to a rodeo at Crooked Creek in June a few years back. The lights attracted a swarm, which burnt up like a giant skeeter zapper when they touched it. Fried Hex's falling dead on the crowd. They eventually roped off that area of the stands, and moved the date for subsequent years!
Everyone called them green drakes. I didn't have much luck convincing them otherwise. But they are indeed Hex's.
pcray1231
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http://www.post-gazette.com/regionstate/20010608mayflies0608p2.asp
http://ulocal.wtae.com/_Mayflies/photo/9806425/62962.html
^^look at that mountain of dead bugs!
http://ulocal.wtae.com/_mayfliesjpg/photo/9806397/62962.html
http://bugguide.net/node/view/326392
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/leadertimes/s_463301.html
http://ulocal.wtae.com/_Mayflies/photo/9806425/62962.html
^^look at that mountain of dead bugs!
http://ulocal.wtae.com/_mayfliesjpg/photo/9806397/62962.html
http://bugguide.net/node/view/326392
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/leadertimes/s_463301.html
JackM
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Heritage-Angler
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Here's a green drake dun from Kettle Creek:
B
brookiesofpa
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Hex over here?! Do they hatch on Oil Creek? Could ya show me a pict pcray1231? I would so love to fish for some trout w hex or green drakes for that matter.
Thanks
I had to get a new username as it wouldn't let me log on.
Greg
pcray1231
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I don't have any pics of hex's, no. Post #9 linked pictures of hex's in PA, see above, those are ALL Pittsburgh area stories, and they are hex's, not drakes.
Yes, I have personally witnessed monster hex hatches on the river and some of it's big tribs. And I've also witnessed hex's in lesser numbers on smaller waters.
I have never seen a hex on Oil Creek. That doesn't mean it doesn't have em, it seems like it should be ideal, and there are certainly streams nearby that do have them. I've seen a couple on Tionesta and I was told second hand that Brokenstraw gets em, and I've personally fished over wild trout rising eagerly to hex's in a stream system that runs into the Allegheny not far from Oil City.
Yes, I have personally witnessed monster hex hatches on the river and some of it's big tribs. And I've also witnessed hex's in lesser numbers on smaller waters.
I have never seen a hex on Oil Creek. That doesn't mean it doesn't have em, it seems like it should be ideal, and there are certainly streams nearby that do have them. I've seen a couple on Tionesta and I was told second hand that Brokenstraw gets em, and I've personally fished over wild trout rising eagerly to hex's in a stream system that runs into the Allegheny not far from Oil City.
turkey
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there are some Hex pics in the "photos" section of PAFF. There were some other type of drake that hatched, in much smaller numbers, on the Allegheny well after the Hex's were done last year. They were smaller than the Hex's and mottled brown. I was surprised at the variety of mayflies hatching on the Allegheny. Not huge hatches but sulphurs, every type of cahill, BWO's (the bigger ones, Drunella lata I think), Hex's, a few slate drakes, caenis (thanks jay), at least one trico, etc. Too bad there aren't any trout.
NOM, sand, heritage, jack nice pics.
NOM, sand, heritage, jack nice pics.
Chaz
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There are a few streams in the Poconos that have a dark green drake, is that the other GD you are asking about Sandfly?
A population doesn't make it a distiction to a subspecies, it would have to have something more than just size to make that distinction. Such as a life history difference. Size varies in these things because of differences in the chemistry of the water and amount of food, it also cause some color differences.
A population doesn't make it a distiction to a subspecies, it would have to have something more than just size to make that distinction. Such as a life history difference. Size varies in these things because of differences in the chemistry of the water and amount of food, it also cause some color differences.
ryguyfi
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Most of the Hex hatch in Western Pa waters is on warm water fisheries. The major river systems seem to be pumping out the big bugs more and more in the last few years. Maybe they'll stretch to some trout streams, but I haven't really seen any yet.
The biggest bugs we get over here on a trout stream are the brown drakes. They come around the 3rd week of May and last about a week max. The stream in this area that gets them the most is the Neshannock. I don't have any great pictures or I'd post one. They're about 5/8" big.
The biggest bugs we get over here on a trout stream are the brown drakes. They come around the 3rd week of May and last about a week max. The stream in this area that gets them the most is the Neshannock. I don't have any great pictures or I'd post one. They're about 5/8" big.
pcray1231
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That's just not true. I've hit very fishable hex hatches on wild trout streams in western PA.
They aren't quite as impressive in numbers as they are on the larger, warmer, more fertile waters. But no hatch is. There's plenty enough to get the fish looking up.
ryguyfi
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I've seen some hexes, but none fishable in the streams I typically fish. Was looking at a few streams you wrote me about today and am thinking of ditching work to go to one, then I map quested it and it's 2.5 hours.... not so close to home! So it may just be MY general area that I'm seeing them more on the larger rivers and very sporadic on some smaller streams.
pcray1231
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Yeah, but in your general area, to be fair, there are very few wild trout streams to begin with.
One problem with hex's is that, like Drakes, the hatch period is so short. If you're not really trying to time it up, the chances of stumbling on a hatch aren't real good. And even if you are trying to time it, your chances are still only fair without some historical notes from which to base your efforts.
Imagine trying to hit Drakes without historical knowledge of dates for that particular stream, fly shop updates, or word of mouth.
Seriously, think about it. Drakes and hex's may only last 2-3 days in a given location. With Drakes, we know it's late May/early June, bout a 3 week window. We know it starts on the lower part of the stream and works upstream over time. We know which streams go first. And you constantly have someone in your ear saying "hit em at ____ last night", and a fly shop with a big banner that says "coffin flies are at _____."
So once you have a basis for that year, you can kinda predict. Ok, they're here tonight, they'll be here tomorrow, and then here the day after that, etc. And for the real hatch chaser, you can probably work out a solid week or two of chasing them throughout the state with pretty good success.
But what do you have with hex's to go off of? No fly shops mention em. Heck, in that area, there's only 1 decent fly shop that does update stuff like that, and it's on Oil Creek, which isn't known for hex's at all. There's no known history that this stream goes before this one. The wild trout streams in that area are too small to consider the going upstream factor. Each location simply has a 2 or 3 day window where it's happening. You can guestimate within a few weeks when that will happen, but hitting the right day isn't a simple matter.
Luckily, it's a good time to fish those streams even without the hex hatch. If they show up, great!!!!
One problem with hex's is that, like Drakes, the hatch period is so short. If you're not really trying to time it up, the chances of stumbling on a hatch aren't real good. And even if you are trying to time it, your chances are still only fair without some historical notes from which to base your efforts.
Imagine trying to hit Drakes without historical knowledge of dates for that particular stream, fly shop updates, or word of mouth.
Seriously, think about it. Drakes and hex's may only last 2-3 days in a given location. With Drakes, we know it's late May/early June, bout a 3 week window. We know it starts on the lower part of the stream and works upstream over time. We know which streams go first. And you constantly have someone in your ear saying "hit em at ____ last night", and a fly shop with a big banner that says "coffin flies are at _____."
So once you have a basis for that year, you can kinda predict. Ok, they're here tonight, they'll be here tomorrow, and then here the day after that, etc. And for the real hatch chaser, you can probably work out a solid week or two of chasing them throughout the state with pretty good success.
But what do you have with hex's to go off of? No fly shops mention em. Heck, in that area, there's only 1 decent fly shop that does update stuff like that, and it's on Oil Creek, which isn't known for hex's at all. There's no known history that this stream goes before this one. The wild trout streams in that area are too small to consider the going upstream factor. Each location simply has a 2 or 3 day window where it's happening. You can guestimate within a few weeks when that will happen, but hitting the right day isn't a simple matter.
Luckily, it's a good time to fish those streams even without the hex hatch. If they show up, great!!!!
ryguyfi
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good points as usual Pat. There lack of "good" trout streams in this area are def a downside to hatch tracking. There's a nice wild stream here that PennKev is just dumbfounded on with the caddis. EVERY rock on the stream is covered in cases, but we just can't figure out when the hatch. Just a good example of a lack of information to help out those looking for specific hatches in a small demographic of trout streams.
